TOP TIPS BUYING A SECOND HAND PIANO
codes for buying:
* SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP
+ MAY BE EXPENSIVE TO REPAIR
++ MAY BE EXPENSIVE TO TUNE & SERVICE
+++ AVOID AT ALL COSTS/ COULD BE WRITTEN OFF
PIANO ASSESSMENT QUALIFICATION & STUDIES
During the first stages of a piano tuner/ technician/ restorer learning their trade, before any tuning or repair modules are carried out, the candidate must, first, be taught the skills required to be able to fully assess and inspect a piano ready for the next stages. A senior lecturer guides the candidate(s) every step of the way to ensure that the candidate examines the piano thoroughly in a professional manner, using a detailed check list, and making any notes along the way. This part of the degree takes around three to four months to complete for upright pianos, and longer for grand pianos..... but this process is on-going throughout the whole degree course, and many candidates are put on the spot to carry out an assessment.
The senior lecturer will choose a candidate from the class at random, and say that it is their turn for "assessment".... this process is repeated several times over a period of about 12 months. When an old piano is brought into the workshop, sometimes two candidates at a time will carry out the inspection together. This part of the course is often FAILED first time, as the candidate may overlook an important part of the mechanism, and they must resit the test until it is passed.
The assessment/ inspection part of the degree is very detailed indeed, and while some of the procedures are explained here, much of the inspection work it too specialised for the average first time buyer of a piano. This kind of work is similar to a vehicle MOT inspector learning the trade, and passing the required exams and practical methods before becoming employed.
A full assessment module takes around two hours to complete in a class workshop or under exam conditions. The candidate will then present their assessment to be marked by the lecturer or examiner. If the piano fails the assessment (not the candidate), this shows good skills by the candidate in being able to detect all the problems with the piano at a future date. The assessment paperwork must show all the problems, and reasons why the piano would fail future tunings, repairs or restoration procedures. The examination is finally topped off with an aural session, allowing the candidate to pin-point and show the problems to the examiner, and during the final 30 minutes of the exam, allow the candidate to discuss matters further including the average costs, tools and labour required.
With this in mind, anyone that is not qualified to inspect a piano prior to purchase do so at their own risk.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following applies mainly to upright pianos. See from <11> mainly about grand pianos.
Where there are some examples/ photos about a subject, click on the highlighted link and scroll down to the required subject.
<1> Always visit the seller's home/ premises to view and check out the piano.
Buying a piano on-line unseen, unheard, and un-played is risky, especially if it is old.
<2> Be cautious about "free to a good home" pianos/ bargain basement pianos / £0 - £100 pianos *
Think of buying a piano as you would buy a car.... would you pay £50 for a car, expected to be running?
Be cautious about wording such as:
(a) 'Can easily be repaired'
(b) 'Much loved piano'
(c) 'Took my daughter to Grade 8'
(d) 'Look - it's FREE!'
(e) 'Wooden piano For Sale'
Spare the sentiments/ easy DIY comments and ignore them. Pianos are very specialised, and a piano technician (like myself)
has previously spent 2-3 years at college learning the technical skills required to gain proper qualifications. We can decide if it's an easy repair, not a seller. If it is that easy, why didn't they get it fixed?
Make sure the advert is 'clean' / not too sentimental and gets to the point. If you see any of the above wording, look elsewhere.
<3> Choose from several pianos, not just one. There should be about 5 photos - all different.
Photo 1: Complete piano 2: Key lid open showing keys & name. 3: Lid closed 4: Internal mechanism parts.
5: General photo showing anything of interest, e.g. carvings, ornamentation.
Be cautious if all photos are generally the same, just taken at different angles
Try not to be 'hooked' on one piano.
<4> ++ / +++ Be very careful about pianos photographed in a garage, shed, outside or where it may be damp & cold
ALWAYS CHECK PIANO PARTS FOR RUST + CORROSION - VERY IMPORTANT.
<5> Play all the keys on the piano, all 85 or 88 keys should work. The piano may or may not be in tune, but everything should work
"mechanically" inside. Press the right pedal and check all the notes sustain, then shut off when you release the pedal.
<6> Ask the seller to remove the top front panel - this will reveal the mechanism inside - don't just look through the top lid.
* Check that all the parts are evenly lined up/ hammers striking all strings centrally / check for hammer head wear
The design should ideally be "Over-strung and under-damped" - ask if you are not sure.
Gently wiggle the hammers side to side, there should be a little movement with resistance. If many of the hammers wobble
side to side excessively/ wander away from the strings (hitting the next note) >> + (*)
<7> Check the keyboard for any damage/ chipped, broken or cracked keys? Some key tops (odd ones) can be replaced*
Check for any sticking keys? If only a few stick, this is not an expensive job to fix if the wood is swollen - but if the underside
key bushings are worn/ loose/ flapping/ missing >> + (*)
<8> * / + / ++ Very important >> Check the condition of the strings & tuning pins. Badly rusted/ corroded strings (missing) or
LOOSE tuning pins can spell danger. Get a professional to check the pin torque; if wrest plank cracked >> +++
* / + / ++ Check the soundboard and bridges for any cracks/ separations. Check soundboard belly bars & screws.
* / + / ++ Check the cast iron frame for any defects/ cracks. Ensure all screws & bolts are present and tight.
<9> + Check for any missing or broken parts. Odd hammer heads & shanks can be replaced, but if parts of the mechanism are missing
altogether (e.g. hammer butt, undercarriage, damper body, wooden keys) -- they cannot be replaced, and can only be
hand-made to order, or swapped from another note (known as 'robbing')
<10> MINI PIANOS / EAVESTAFF MINI 1930S ART DECO / LINDNER PIANOS / SPRING & LOOP MECHANISM
+ / ++ / +++ Mini pianos usually have a smaller keyboard - 6 octaves, some are very attractive and look like a desk bureau.
If the wrest plank is cracked or damaged, these pianos cannot be repaired easily. Price for tuning is double.
Any mini piano with a 'drop' mechanism (sunken below the keys) that requires a repair - e.g. broken string, may
require the WHOLE piano to be removed for repairs to take place >> + / ++
+ / ++ Lindner upright pianos (1970s) - were made in Ireland, and have many plastic snap-on parts inside. If anything breaks
or is missing, they cannot be repaired, and spare parts cannot be bought. Only buy if fully working/ good condition.
+ / ++ / +++ SPRING & LOOP mechanisms (bird cage actions) are mostly obsolete, and piano tuners avoid these pianos.
WOODEN FRAMED PIANOS (NOT cast iron) >> +++ some are impossible to tune (e.g. Pre 1900 cottage pianos)
<11> GRAND PIANOS: * Carefully remove the mechanism for inspection of the hammers and parts. When the action slides out,
do not touch any part of the piano keys, otherwise you may break off a hammer head - very common. If not sure, look
through the strings (remove music rest) to see the mechanism inside.
<12> GRAND PIANOS: * Check that all parts are present and not missing including: Pedal lyre & parts/ springs / lyre stay rod
music rest tray & hinges / Top lid hinges & hinge pins with screws / Top lid prop stick with hinge & screws.
Certain old grand pianos have threaded damper wires* .... if you are considering buying a grand piano for restoration at a later
date, the damper system must be inspected and assessed for any possible upgrades such as new damper lift wire grub screws.
See the Erard Grand piano restoration blog as an example.
<13> ALL PIANOS: (All codes) >> INSECT DAMAGE. All pianos MUST be checked thoroughly for insect damage.
See example.
During the early stages of an insect (may fly, blue bottle flies etc), they lay their eggs inside piano felt, especially the mechanism.
When the eggs hatch, the maggot will eat and tunnel its way through keyboard felt, hammers, glue and soft felts. They can cause
devastation and irrepairable damage to pianos, usually beyond economical repair. One customer of mine spent in the region of
£12K to have their grand piano restored, due to insect infestation. The maggots then hatch into flies, they fly away (some are
STILL walking around inside piano) .... then they return year after year to lay new eggs.
Pianos that have suffered from insect damage is usually the kiss of death.
Any piano like this to be restored has to go through fumigation and quarantine.
We deal with insect damage very seriously, and often refuse to repair or tune pianos if the piano is too far gone.
<14> PIANO LOCATION / REMOVAL COSTS / OTHER .....
When you view a piano, always bear in mind where the piano is situated in a home/ premises. They are very HEAVY!
Check all access routes/ steps (more than 3)/ stairs, or any tricky locations. Also check the flooring. If the seller has
beautiful new laminated flooring, the last thing they want is an amateur moving a piano that could scratch their floor.
Check the piano castors, making sure none are missing or broken, and move freely.
GRAND PIANO LEGS: Many grand pianos can weigh well over half a ton (large grand pianos can reach a ton).... so it is
important to check the stability of all the legs/ screw dowels/ cleats. Gently rock each 'corner' of the piano to ensure the
legs are fixed properly and secure. If the legs are bolted on (usually 2 bolts per leg), make sure all bolts are present.
This also applies to pedal lyre bolts X 2, and general fixture screws. Leg and pedal bolts are usually hardened steel, some are
captive butterfly bolts, and are secured into a steel threaded sleeve, drilled into the piano bulkhead.
<15> OTHER >> It is always a good idea to ask about previous tuning/ servicing/ regulation history. A piano is more likely to be
trusted by you if the seller can provide previous invoices and tuning receipts. Some sellers keep a service
history record card/ tuning card - these are the things you want to see, just like a car.
Ask if the piano stool is included, unless obvious.
<16> IS THE ADVERTISEMENT GENUINE?
It is often the case a person selling their piano desperately want rid of it - just to get their space back, and some try all the tricks in the book to get that sale they want.... after all, they don't care about the piano any more - just want the cash, then run. Some sellers are genuinely upset to see their heirloom being wheeled away.... however, putting all the nice things aside.... consider this ad ....
"Upright Bechstein Piano For Sale, 1 broken hammer and 1 broken string £50" (True story)
The advert looks genuine enough and honest.
After the seller was contacted by a potential buyer, and between emailing us for repair prices, the seller THEN announced that there were THREE broken hammers and TWO broken strings - so the advert was misleading.
This is quite common for a non-experienced musician to sell a piano under their own name, but don't want any blame for broken parts.
We then challenged the seller again, and asked if we could come and inspect the piano (the potential buyer was prepared to pay our inspection fee).... but the seller refused access! I wonder why?
In cases like this, it's best to walk away, unless the seller comes clean. Misleading adverts are an art.
I hope that this Top Tips section is useful for any 1st time buyer / new owner of a piano, and I always recommend that a piano
should be fully inspected by one of our team prior to purchase, the price is from £40 for this peace of mind service. If you do not understand any part of the Top Tips list above, then contact me for an independent inspection or assessment. Even reputable pianists and piano teachers can miss out important information, and they often call us for our professional help.
For a piano tuning to start and be successful, all mechanism parts and their components should be in good working order.
If a part is missing/ broken/ seized/ returns slowly, it must be fixed first before it can be tuned.
The above is a general guide only, and does not replace the need for a professionally qualified piano technician to inspect a piano in greater detail. If you do not "know much" about pianos (as I am often told this) .... always seek professional help.
Just remember...... there is no such thing as a free piano.... you will always pay the price later !
AA PIANO TUNERS UK
<<Home
During the first stages of a piano tuner/ technician/ restorer learning their trade, before any tuning or repair modules are carried out, the candidate must, first, be taught the skills required to be able to fully assess and inspect a piano ready for the next stages. A senior lecturer guides the candidate(s) every step of the way to ensure that the candidate examines the piano thoroughly in a professional manner, using a detailed check list, and making any notes along the way. This part of the degree takes around three to four months to complete for upright pianos, and longer for grand pianos..... but this process is on-going throughout the whole degree course, and many candidates are put on the spot to carry out an assessment.
The senior lecturer will choose a candidate from the class at random, and say that it is their turn for "assessment".... this process is repeated several times over a period of about 12 months. When an old piano is brought into the workshop, sometimes two candidates at a time will carry out the inspection together. This part of the course is often FAILED first time, as the candidate may overlook an important part of the mechanism, and they must resit the test until it is passed.
The assessment/ inspection part of the degree is very detailed indeed, and while some of the procedures are explained here, much of the inspection work it too specialised for the average first time buyer of a piano. This kind of work is similar to a vehicle MOT inspector learning the trade, and passing the required exams and practical methods before becoming employed.
A full assessment module takes around two hours to complete in a class workshop or under exam conditions. The candidate will then present their assessment to be marked by the lecturer or examiner. If the piano fails the assessment (not the candidate), this shows good skills by the candidate in being able to detect all the problems with the piano at a future date. The assessment paperwork must show all the problems, and reasons why the piano would fail future tunings, repairs or restoration procedures. The examination is finally topped off with an aural session, allowing the candidate to pin-point and show the problems to the examiner, and during the final 30 minutes of the exam, allow the candidate to discuss matters further including the average costs, tools and labour required.
With this in mind, anyone that is not qualified to inspect a piano prior to purchase do so at their own risk.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following applies mainly to upright pianos. See from <11> mainly about grand pianos.
Where there are some examples/ photos about a subject, click on the highlighted link and scroll down to the required subject.
<1> Always visit the seller's home/ premises to view and check out the piano.
Buying a piano on-line unseen, unheard, and un-played is risky, especially if it is old.
<2> Be cautious about "free to a good home" pianos/ bargain basement pianos / £0 - £100 pianos *
Think of buying a piano as you would buy a car.... would you pay £50 for a car, expected to be running?
Be cautious about wording such as:
(a) 'Can easily be repaired'
(b) 'Much loved piano'
(c) 'Took my daughter to Grade 8'
(d) 'Look - it's FREE!'
(e) 'Wooden piano For Sale'
Spare the sentiments/ easy DIY comments and ignore them. Pianos are very specialised, and a piano technician (like myself)
has previously spent 2-3 years at college learning the technical skills required to gain proper qualifications. We can decide if it's an easy repair, not a seller. If it is that easy, why didn't they get it fixed?
Make sure the advert is 'clean' / not too sentimental and gets to the point. If you see any of the above wording, look elsewhere.
<3> Choose from several pianos, not just one. There should be about 5 photos - all different.
Photo 1: Complete piano 2: Key lid open showing keys & name. 3: Lid closed 4: Internal mechanism parts.
5: General photo showing anything of interest, e.g. carvings, ornamentation.
Be cautious if all photos are generally the same, just taken at different angles
Try not to be 'hooked' on one piano.
<4> ++ / +++ Be very careful about pianos photographed in a garage, shed, outside or where it may be damp & cold
ALWAYS CHECK PIANO PARTS FOR RUST + CORROSION - VERY IMPORTANT.
<5> Play all the keys on the piano, all 85 or 88 keys should work. The piano may or may not be in tune, but everything should work
"mechanically" inside. Press the right pedal and check all the notes sustain, then shut off when you release the pedal.
<6> Ask the seller to remove the top front panel - this will reveal the mechanism inside - don't just look through the top lid.
* Check that all the parts are evenly lined up/ hammers striking all strings centrally / check for hammer head wear
The design should ideally be "Over-strung and under-damped" - ask if you are not sure.
Gently wiggle the hammers side to side, there should be a little movement with resistance. If many of the hammers wobble
side to side excessively/ wander away from the strings (hitting the next note) >> + (*)
<7> Check the keyboard for any damage/ chipped, broken or cracked keys? Some key tops (odd ones) can be replaced*
Check for any sticking keys? If only a few stick, this is not an expensive job to fix if the wood is swollen - but if the underside
key bushings are worn/ loose/ flapping/ missing >> + (*)
<8> * / + / ++ Very important >> Check the condition of the strings & tuning pins. Badly rusted/ corroded strings (missing) or
LOOSE tuning pins can spell danger. Get a professional to check the pin torque; if wrest plank cracked >> +++
* / + / ++ Check the soundboard and bridges for any cracks/ separations. Check soundboard belly bars & screws.
* / + / ++ Check the cast iron frame for any defects/ cracks. Ensure all screws & bolts are present and tight.
<9> + Check for any missing or broken parts. Odd hammer heads & shanks can be replaced, but if parts of the mechanism are missing
altogether (e.g. hammer butt, undercarriage, damper body, wooden keys) -- they cannot be replaced, and can only be
hand-made to order, or swapped from another note (known as 'robbing')
<10> MINI PIANOS / EAVESTAFF MINI 1930S ART DECO / LINDNER PIANOS / SPRING & LOOP MECHANISM
+ / ++ / +++ Mini pianos usually have a smaller keyboard - 6 octaves, some are very attractive and look like a desk bureau.
If the wrest plank is cracked or damaged, these pianos cannot be repaired easily. Price for tuning is double.
Any mini piano with a 'drop' mechanism (sunken below the keys) that requires a repair - e.g. broken string, may
require the WHOLE piano to be removed for repairs to take place >> + / ++
+ / ++ Lindner upright pianos (1970s) - were made in Ireland, and have many plastic snap-on parts inside. If anything breaks
or is missing, they cannot be repaired, and spare parts cannot be bought. Only buy if fully working/ good condition.
+ / ++ / +++ SPRING & LOOP mechanisms (bird cage actions) are mostly obsolete, and piano tuners avoid these pianos.
WOODEN FRAMED PIANOS (NOT cast iron) >> +++ some are impossible to tune (e.g. Pre 1900 cottage pianos)
<11> GRAND PIANOS: * Carefully remove the mechanism for inspection of the hammers and parts. When the action slides out,
do not touch any part of the piano keys, otherwise you may break off a hammer head - very common. If not sure, look
through the strings (remove music rest) to see the mechanism inside.
<12> GRAND PIANOS: * Check that all parts are present and not missing including: Pedal lyre & parts/ springs / lyre stay rod
music rest tray & hinges / Top lid hinges & hinge pins with screws / Top lid prop stick with hinge & screws.
Certain old grand pianos have threaded damper wires* .... if you are considering buying a grand piano for restoration at a later
date, the damper system must be inspected and assessed for any possible upgrades such as new damper lift wire grub screws.
See the Erard Grand piano restoration blog as an example.
<13> ALL PIANOS: (All codes) >> INSECT DAMAGE. All pianos MUST be checked thoroughly for insect damage.
See example.
During the early stages of an insect (may fly, blue bottle flies etc), they lay their eggs inside piano felt, especially the mechanism.
When the eggs hatch, the maggot will eat and tunnel its way through keyboard felt, hammers, glue and soft felts. They can cause
devastation and irrepairable damage to pianos, usually beyond economical repair. One customer of mine spent in the region of
£12K to have their grand piano restored, due to insect infestation. The maggots then hatch into flies, they fly away (some are
STILL walking around inside piano) .... then they return year after year to lay new eggs.
Pianos that have suffered from insect damage is usually the kiss of death.
Any piano like this to be restored has to go through fumigation and quarantine.
We deal with insect damage very seriously, and often refuse to repair or tune pianos if the piano is too far gone.
<14> PIANO LOCATION / REMOVAL COSTS / OTHER .....
When you view a piano, always bear in mind where the piano is situated in a home/ premises. They are very HEAVY!
Check all access routes/ steps (more than 3)/ stairs, or any tricky locations. Also check the flooring. If the seller has
beautiful new laminated flooring, the last thing they want is an amateur moving a piano that could scratch their floor.
Check the piano castors, making sure none are missing or broken, and move freely.
GRAND PIANO LEGS: Many grand pianos can weigh well over half a ton (large grand pianos can reach a ton).... so it is
important to check the stability of all the legs/ screw dowels/ cleats. Gently rock each 'corner' of the piano to ensure the
legs are fixed properly and secure. If the legs are bolted on (usually 2 bolts per leg), make sure all bolts are present.
This also applies to pedal lyre bolts X 2, and general fixture screws. Leg and pedal bolts are usually hardened steel, some are
captive butterfly bolts, and are secured into a steel threaded sleeve, drilled into the piano bulkhead.
<15> OTHER >> It is always a good idea to ask about previous tuning/ servicing/ regulation history. A piano is more likely to be
trusted by you if the seller can provide previous invoices and tuning receipts. Some sellers keep a service
history record card/ tuning card - these are the things you want to see, just like a car.
Ask if the piano stool is included, unless obvious.
<16> IS THE ADVERTISEMENT GENUINE?
It is often the case a person selling their piano desperately want rid of it - just to get their space back, and some try all the tricks in the book to get that sale they want.... after all, they don't care about the piano any more - just want the cash, then run. Some sellers are genuinely upset to see their heirloom being wheeled away.... however, putting all the nice things aside.... consider this ad ....
"Upright Bechstein Piano For Sale, 1 broken hammer and 1 broken string £50" (True story)
The advert looks genuine enough and honest.
After the seller was contacted by a potential buyer, and between emailing us for repair prices, the seller THEN announced that there were THREE broken hammers and TWO broken strings - so the advert was misleading.
This is quite common for a non-experienced musician to sell a piano under their own name, but don't want any blame for broken parts.
We then challenged the seller again, and asked if we could come and inspect the piano (the potential buyer was prepared to pay our inspection fee).... but the seller refused access! I wonder why?
In cases like this, it's best to walk away, unless the seller comes clean. Misleading adverts are an art.
I hope that this Top Tips section is useful for any 1st time buyer / new owner of a piano, and I always recommend that a piano
should be fully inspected by one of our team prior to purchase, the price is from £40 for this peace of mind service. If you do not understand any part of the Top Tips list above, then contact me for an independent inspection or assessment. Even reputable pianists and piano teachers can miss out important information, and they often call us for our professional help.
For a piano tuning to start and be successful, all mechanism parts and their components should be in good working order.
If a part is missing/ broken/ seized/ returns slowly, it must be fixed first before it can be tuned.
The above is a general guide only, and does not replace the need for a professionally qualified piano technician to inspect a piano in greater detail. If you do not "know much" about pianos (as I am often told this) .... always seek professional help.
Just remember...... there is no such thing as a free piano.... you will always pay the price later !
AA PIANO TUNERS UK
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